http://ninja-mod.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] ninja-mod.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] thatrainbowcity2007-10-13 04:07 pm

(no subject)


TL;DR

APPLICATIONS


OK…this will definitely upset a few people, as well as call on a potential uprising – but there’s something exceedingly pleasant about them pitch forks, and I suppose that if ye gotta have an exit, angry mob is one way to make it memorable.

That said, we really… can’t take the app rhythm anymore. We usually get around eighty submissions per app week, which… let’s face it… is a lot. At the time of my writing, there have been 59 character reserves formally stated; in my experience, the very most we can assume is that ten of those will not result in applications. That still leaves us with 49.

…here’s another fact: most applications? Don’t come from reserves. They’re the end product of last moment whim and fancy. Which is OK – but that 49 will sadly double.

I’m sure no one cares about the math. But this is the background behind a decision we’re going to have to ask you to make.

We’ve considered our options at this point. Some of them have been more pleasant than others – some have required entirely too much thought. Ultimately, what we came down to are two proposals:


[Poll #1070767]


There are three other very obvious alternatives that we’ve overlooked in that poll, and here was our reasoning to do it:

I. “Make the app process less of an ordeal so it’ll not take as much time.” As detailed in our last post, that is sadly not an option. Quality > quantity, always.
II. “Get another mod to help! Hell, I’ll do it!”

Before anyone mentions the “variety of advantages” that a mod has, allow me to list the minutiae:


  • a moderator does not have the right to submit complaints to the any of the characterization threads;
  • a moderator does not have the right to communicate personal player complaints to the ‘offending’ parties;
  • a moderator is not allowed to indulge in plots that might in any way inconvenience other players;
  • clearly, moderators cannot judge their own applications;
  • a moderator is not to judge the application of a character that is / will be in their crew insofar as another moderator is familiar with that same fandom;
  • a moderator’s application is subjected to the finest scrutiny, on the formal premise that others will expect it to lead by example, and the implicit one that cries of MOD POWER ABUSE will be heard if there’s ever any suspicion;
  • a moderator is not allowed to have inactivity issues;
  • a moderator has to handle two fixed tasks, applications and dialogues with whomever might have something to say;
  • a moderator is not allowed to hiatus indefinitely, or become inaccessible for anything equal to or beyond a month;
  • a moderator has to be polite 24/7 even to those people he or she honest to God dislikes.


  • This is a set of inner rules that take administration to a perhaps unnecessary degree of formality. They preempt us from a number of actions that are obviously available at the regular RPer’s leisure, with all the WIN and AWESOME that comes with some of them. They also entail that if one mod messes up, the others get the chance to slap themselves a bitch. We like doing that. It provides the daily dose of exercise, secures alpha positions in the pack without bad purple prose of most fantasy novels, and in 92.8% cases, we’ve found that the tears of pain and horror from the pwned mod are the Best Moisturizer Evah.

    Ergo, this is a set of inner rules that is here to stay. Now reevaluate it and consider how many people would willingly devote a considerable amount of their time, but mostly energy to a position that robs them of many game liberties, and brings no definite advantage beyond a job relatively well done? More to the point, how many people can we trust to constantly abide by these rules?

    Because, and let me get it n the open at the risk of further enraging over 200 RPers: we spoil. And I – personally – don’t want to have to worry about whether a fellow mod elected in a rush is being rude to a player, powergaming, indulging in every shade of nepotism under the sun, etc, etc, etc. We like spoiling.

    So – is RP srs bizness? LULZ WTF NO. Is RP administration srs bizness? It means dealing with – often frustrated or downright furious - people on a regular basis. So, you answer that yourselves. And you consider whether " getting another mod to help ♥" is as easy as it might sound.

    III. "If you’re not up for it, quit the job, let other people who can handle it do it, losers." This actually doesn’t fall under category II, because let’s face it, those who resign do not choose their successors; they can at most recommend them. If it comes down to this being what you all want, I’m personally up to taking leave from my mod hat, no further words necessary. But I somehow doubt this will solve the app problem for new mods to come.

    If at this point you have any SUGGESTIONS, we would love to hear them. Not because we’re looking for reassurance, or an argument, and definitely not because we want to hear why this policy sucks and how much you feel like crying now. We’d like to hear what you have to say because, yes – we’d like to get the matter solved.

    Thank you.

    [identity profile] proudbutterfly.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)
    Being a moderator sucks, rly. I don't envy you. ♥

    *snugs, cookies and lemon cakes. Something else? D:*

    [identity profile] tinyvampiregod.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:16 pm (UTC)(link)
    Don't allow reservations or have them for one day only. If a person wants a character, they will go to the trouble of apping for it at once.

    [identity profile] floating-bamboo.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)
    Being a mod at a tiny game and finding that hard, I can not even imagine how hard it must be for you guys.

    Lots of love to you!

    [identity profile] theotokos.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)
    Agreeing with Alucard-mun on reservations. Some places that I've been in and were smaller than this game had reservations for three days. And it seems like half the reservations for characters aren't even applied for.

    [identity profile] ruxi.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:21 pm (UTC)(link)
    Of late, it tends to be around ten out of fifty, actually. I think it must have to do with the fact that there are fewer and fewer chars 'left' to app, so people want to make sure they get them.

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    [identity profile] dresden4hire.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:21 pm (UTC)(link)
    I like the option for the limited number of apps on a first come first serve basis every two weeks. The only issue I could forsee is that if someone who has no or only a few characters keeps missing an app reserve spot because people with 7 or so characters keep apping more and fill up the list.

    That being said, 60 is probably more than enough for someone to get a reservation in on a character so long as it's not a last minute thing. So it probably won't happen, I'm just saying it has the potential.

    Also, once the 60 spots are filled up, can you start filling up spots for the next app week?

    And finally, you guys are the win. Most games aren't modded half as well and how serious you take the app business ensures that only good players are here. So for all the pain the app process creates for all of you, I want you to know we do appreciate it! Or, at least, I do. Everyone else might hate it, but who's opinion is really important in the scheme of things...

    [identity profile] ruxi.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:29 pm (UTC)(link)
    *nod*

    Each option has its drawbacks.

    On the one hand, one week / month means everyone gets to app only one character each month, and it'll certainly drag down some crews.

    On the other, two weels / month means that some people might be left out. IMO, if things keep at a mean of 80 apps / app week, then reducing it to 60 shouldn't pose that many difficulties... but we have no certainty that it will remain at that mean.

    We'd probably have to take into account the entire " can slots be filled up in advance " issue if we end up with the slot!option. What I can say for sure at this point is that, for instance, reserving a char will not guarantee you a slot.

    [identity profile] reaping-havoc.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
    Jeebus..

    I'd figure for the second option, if only that the "only 60, first come first serve" rule might not be fair to those new to Poly and might feel too pressured.

    [identity profile] overload.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
    I-I may get shot for this, but how about having the same setup as now, with one week to app and one week to reserve. But leave the apps for approval for both weeks? So, on the Sunday where the apps close, the thread could be made 'private' so that no one other than the mod-account can see it and go through the business?

    But yes, I can completely see the problem with the current system. Especially considering how quickly it's been growing over the past, few months.

    Also? "one week of apps per month, unlimited number of apps allowed" Would that still be running on the one app per person, per week thing?

    [identity profile] ruxi.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:26 pm (UTC)(link)
    Still one person / one app, yes.

    [identity profile] ilikevillains.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:24 pm (UTC)(link)
    I really don't envy you in your task. But good luck, figuring these things out, I'll be supportive. ~♥♥♥~

    [identity profile] shoulder-spikes.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:27 pm (UTC)(link)
    If one became a moderator, would they be tracked down, stoned, and hanged if they were to leave the game?
    And would they be expected to be on-call 24 hours a day, 7 blah blah blah?

    [identity profile] ruxi.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:30 pm (UTC)(link)
    LOL NO, on either.

    ...but does it seem like that some times? Sadly, yeah.

    [identity profile] inyourbusiness.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
    I think you guys are doing a terrific job, to be honest. I expressed my love for you guys earlier!

    Oh, I should vote. D:

    [identity profile] contractorly.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:32 pm (UTC)(link)
    I voted for the first option because my reasoning is that if someone really wants to apply for a character, then they'll submit an application early on in the week. Of course, there's the whole "I'm too busy!" situation, but with having a whole reserve week to write an application...I don't think that should be too much of a factor.

    And thank you muchly for all your hard work, modlies! ♥

    *gives an honorary platypus (http://www.zoo.org.au/featured/imagedir/plat4.jpg)*

    [identity profile] ignipotent.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:49 pm (UTC)(link)
    Also, not trying to label other muns/potential-muns as idiots (not at all! @_@,) but maybe clarify that unlimited applications don't mean that one can apply for unlimited characters during that week? I'm sure it's pretty clear that unlimited = applications in general, but you never know. XD

    [identity profile] henkonasuisho.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:35 pm (UTC)(link)
    ♥ We all appreciate and love the work you mods so I doubt anyone who says #3 understands.

    *snugs and offers pillows*

    [identity profile] toonurturing.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:39 pm (UTC)(link)
    Is this when I second how hard it is to be a mod by offering evidence that... when I was asked I thought, by the tone and severity, that I was being asked to be the speaker at a funeral, or that I was about to get into something REALLY bad? 8D

    ♥ to Poly.

    [identity profile] demon-bird.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:41 pm (UTC)(link)
    The way I've understood it, no one wants to be part of any admissions process. It's like pulling teeth and constantly having to research and get your feet wet. not as cushy as it seems to the lower level minions

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    [identity profile] zodiac-uma.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:44 pm (UTC)(link)
    Mods rule! ♥

    Though I can't decide on an option. Being new here, honestly, I would have been freaked and possibly put off if I have to wait 3 weeks to apply as this place is so much fun!!! The events really make this board a great place to RP at, as you don't have to be like 'Okay, what can my character do today?'

    If you don't mind me asking, was there simply too many applications if you just left apping open all the time?

    I've also already finished my app for Nanao... a few days ago actually >>

    [identity profile] ruxi.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:49 pm (UTC)(link)
    That's actually how the old mods kept [livejournal.com profile] polychromatic a busy little bumblebee -- apps open perpetually. That's more than feasible when a game is small - like... 200 chars? But it's not really an option anymore once you get past that number. We're dealing somewhere in the 500 now, I think.

    Having things open 24/7 also means that, inevitably, someone will hurry up to fill their 10 char slots very soon and not allow other people the opportunity to app a certain char. If I submit an app every day (and get a positive verdict on it) for seven, while other people are, you know, normal and would have apped one of the seven chars once a week or some such... you just end up with a lot of people with trophy!chars, and some left out.

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    [identity profile] misterblackbird.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 08:53 pm (UTC)(link)
    ♥♥♥ Much love to the mods, because I know you guys have a hard enough time and apps all but eat you alive. I think you're doing an excellent job (so far as I've seen it) and I'd hate to see situation III ever come about.

    I guess either solution has its drawbacks too--either "pressure" about the limited number of openings or a backlog that could swamp the mods once a month. But I hope whichever one you choose will make matters easier for you (I'm tending towards the slot!option now...for your poor sakes...).

    [identity profile] mendaa.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 09:31 pm (UTC)(link)
    Rather than adding more "moderators," why not just have "application assistants" or something along those lines? I'm sure that there are people willing to help out with getting through the application process smoothly, without necessarily becoming a moderator/deity/etc. So they wouldn't have any more authority than a normal player, save that they'd be judging some applications.

    You could also considering keeping applications open permanently, and simply changing the rule to one character every two weeks? That way, the same amount of applications would be spread out over a longer period of time.

    [identity profile] ruxi.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 09:45 pm (UTC)(link)
    Well, I don't think you can pretty much separate functions like you're implying. If you're what you called an 'application assistant', you're still bound by the majority of the rules that apply to moderators. Likewise, you'd have to be kept in permanent touch with whatever policy rules that take place, and you'd ultimately have to both address and be held responsible towards the people you approve / reject. Which means you'd not only have to talk to them, but if characterization complaints gather? You'll have to cater to the issue.

    While you're doing that, you have to monitor the general use and ICdom of a character you have approved - like, making sure that, dunno, Superman doesn't conveniently say LULZ KRYPTONITE and go on a killing spree. It's certainly within his ability, but the person who approved the char would have to have a word with that player, and answer all their questions. Allegedly, they know the fandom, right? Or at least they've taken the time to investigate it.

    One thing just... goes into the other, you know? You can't really divorce tasks.

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    [identity profile] venomouselle.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 09:35 pm (UTC)(link)
    Damn, that is difficult to decide between the two options. I love and respect you Poly mods, I don't think I could ever do as well as any of you. Please don't leave me. ;-;

    I think that the first option would be best. To resolve the first timers part of the puzzle, maybe a week could be left open specifically for first time players for applications and allow only so many.

    Erm. That sounded better in my head but something to that effect?

    I think that the waiting game and special application time will help weed out people who won't be very active--whim or not.

    ♥ ♥

    I offer up tiny skeletal sacrifices.

    Image

    [identity profile] dark-passenger.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 09:41 pm (UTC)(link)
    those are cute and I demand one in my tummy this instant >U

    [identity profile] dark-passenger.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 09:40 pm (UTC)(link)
    What would happen if RPers could not app a character unless they reserved them?

    Granted, you'd have more work compiling a reserve list...but the last minute apps would be cut out.

    I thought really hard before suggesting anything, I swear.
    It hurt a little.

    [identity profile] ruxi.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)
    That might just reduce the number of 'unknown' apps, but not solve the 'wow, too many for us to handle ;.; ' part of the problem. Which is, selfishly, the one we're most concerned with. ._.

    [identity profile] nico-oniichan.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 09:43 pm (UTC)(link)
    ...Well, my idea probably won't be accepted, but maybe we could do something similar to Camp Fuck You Died, where those who want to app have to submit an application that other muns judge?

    Mind you, the mods still would have final say in case other muns from a fandom decided to try to push them through. I dunno. :|

    [identity profile] ruxi.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 09:49 pm (UTC)(link)
    We actually gave quite a bit of thought to copping out a la CFUD, because it would certainly spare us the inconvenience, but we found way too many loopholes. Like, well... some muns are popular, you know? And their apps will more often than not get votes just because they are who they are, not because of the app's overall quality. If ten people supply votes that way, that's still enough for it to, um, hurt on the long run.

    Likewise, who's to be held responsible for approving a certain player? That's the thing, with moderating and approving these things comes a good chunk of responsibility. I named above some of them... talking things out, answering questions, ultimately holding the invisible leash, re: powergaming.

    And, like you said, if mods still got final say (so they'd hold that responsibility), where do you draw the line as to when a mod can or cannot intervene against the 'people' 's will? Suppose most of the com wants a certain app in, but the mod disagrees - how do you explain this veto without incurring grudge?

    [identity profile] alexander.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 10:05 pm (UTC)(link)
    Ahh, man being swamped as a mod blows ♥ good luck.

    I hope you can get more manpower -- because that's often super super helpful in my limited experience.

    And as to the CFUD option -- apps there are anonymous to squash out the 'omg popular mun' syndrome. It is possible that by virtue of writing style and character choice it's possible to see WHO -- also, since Poly doesn't require a sort of 'canon' section having people vote on it would be a bit odd if they were voting blind.

    Good luck and if there's anything I could do to help you ♥

    [identity profile] mildlyreckless.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 10:48 pm (UTC)(link)
    Are you guys needing more mods?

    That aside, I originally voted "one week a month" but now that I think about it, I think the limited two weeks MIGHT be better, but I'm still not sure... I'd really like an option that allowed more QUALITY to get in, but I can't decide which method (if either, because, let's face it, the shit must flow) would encourage that out of either of them.

    Honestly? I'mgladyouguysarecuttingappsdown.

    [identity profile] juicebox-woes.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 11:19 pm (UTC)(link)
    I would suggest what I'd consider a "happy medium". That being keep the same schedule for apps, but add in two potential things.

    1. Make it a requirement that interested parties reserve their character before applying.

    2. Limit the overall number of applications that can be submitted/characters that can be reserved.

    [identity profile] ex-enables28.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 11:37 pm (UTC)(link)
    I'm going to put my neck on the chopping block here, and say that I do think that looking for another moderator or two is a good idea, or as someone else said just a 'mini-mod' to help out with apps. I do realise that there are advantages and disadvantages, but I'm sure you'd find another willing hand around somewhere. This game is huge, and you've got over five hundred characters here - but only four mods. Mayhaps it's just me, but that is rather a huge workload for only the four of you. D: Just my $0.02.

    [identity profile] ex-enables28.livejournal.com 2007-10-13 11:43 pm (UTC)(link)
    I'm not trying to say that getting a new mod would replace these ideas, but. It would just help in the long run, or something, and. Yeah so shutting up now. DX

    But I do like the first option, and the fact that the amount of applications is being reduced. u.u

    [identity profile] verily.livejournal.com 2007-10-14 12:09 am (UTC)(link)
    I'm not really sure if this is an idea that would work, but maybe you could break up the apps even further? So that you're dealing with a smaller group at a time? Have a time for applications from the old players or ones who already have characters and then a time for applications from the new players who haven't been in or left Poly from a long time ago. And then round it out with reserves. Not sure how that idea might fly with people in general, but it's a suggestion?

    Also, willing to help out too since I can really only imagine what it must be like @_@

    [identity profile] goddessdivia.livejournal.com 2007-10-14 12:22 am (UTC)(link)
    Just a quick question. a moderator is not allowed to indulge in plots that might in any way inconvenience other players; What does that mean? Inconvenience how?

    Option one sounds like the most plausible one because only having apps open once month could backfire two ways. Many newbies may be detoured or a crapload of applications could come tumbling in. And having to deal with an monthly avalanche of apps I cannot in good conscience do that to anyone.

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